Subject: OT-ness and a new list? (Was: Opportunity lost?...)
From: Adam Theo <>
Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 03:38:25 -0400

"Stephen J. Turnbull" <> wrote:
    I don't think discussion of such licenses is appropriate on FSB as
    chartered.  I do think that FSBers have a strong interest in them,
    though, as they are partially compatible with our goals.  And FSBers
    (that is, the "economist faction"; the "freedom faction" has different
    goals) should support people interested in them.  A mailing list for
    those purposes would be a good idea.

i agree now. I see that the FSB list, while very active and
informative, is not the place for discussion and development of
non-"strictly free software" licenses and models. I respect the FSB,
and plan to continue to learn and participate in it, but it's charter
does not allow for this sort of thing, and that should be respected.

i am very honoured to mr blankley for starting the Challenge, and want
to keep it going, to produce many results. but here is not the place
for it. it should be moved, to one or more lists.

with that said, i must make sure to clarify what mr turnbull meant in
his above post. did you mean the discussion of "proprietary" (using
your definition of the word you give) should have it;s own list? just
want to make sure i didn't read this wrong.

next, i want to offer my services to any such new list and project
along these lines.

i came to this list wondering about a "viewable yet proprietary" model
(or VYP-Model, pronounced like 'vip', with a short 'i', as i have been
calling it in my personal notes and brainstorm sketches.). this model
hasd since fallen out of my favor thanks to the alternate ideas from
this list.

i then had the idea of an "open source for a fee" model (or the
OSFAF-Model, in my notes.), which was basically open source (just
using this term to help others understand it, i understand this model
probably doesn't fit within the definition of open source), since it
could be modified and redistributed (with modifications), as long as
users/developers paid a set fee to the original author. i still like
this general idea, but perfectly understand many details need to be
worked out for it to be feasible.

during the discussion on open source licensing, it was recommended to
me to read "the magic cauldron" by eric raymond. i did so, and came to
believe in the promise of "patronage" as a viable, main source of
income for a large percentage of developers. i have become a believer,
in a sense, of the potential of the patronage system as he describes
in his essay, although feel it is just in it's beginnings, and not
reached it's full potential as the financial support model for
developers it can become.

i bring up those three models because i would be very interested in
dedicating resources to them and their development. even the
VYP-Model, which i could very well never use in favor of the OSFAF (or
some other) model, i still believe it should be developed as an option
for those who want to use it instead of open source models.

those are just three models off the top of my head. i also want to see
the general Challenge continue, which was to find ways for individual,
or small-scale developers to profit off of creating open source/free
software (as i understood it.). i can add that to the above list, as

there was talk earlier of starting a 'beginners' list for open source,
to hand-hold people and businesses into the open source market. i am
interested in this as well.

i can provide plenty of very high-quality webspace (my host is Superb
Internet,, which i practically worship for their
high level of excellence and customer satisfaction). i can provide
mailing lists, email forwarding, autoresponders, web-boards, other cgi
scripts, and my own personal skills at programming (not much, but i'm
learning fast, and always looking for a challenge.), and a domain
name. i've used all of those features before (the mailing list, cgi
stuff, etc.), so am familiar with administration of them.

also, it would be a huge honor to me to be the home of such projects
that i personally want to see happen.

so, if you think this is a good idea, just tell me what you want, and
if i like it, i'll do it, and dedicate myself to it.
   /\    --- Adam Theo ---
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