Subject: Re: crux of the essence
From: Stephen J. Turnbull <>
Date: 19 Oct 2001 11:20:03 +0900

>>>>> "Jean" == Jean Camp <> writes:

    Jean> The GrameenPhone founder is here for a semester teaching
    Jean> about using IT to enhance development. He is fairly well
    Jean> traveled. He has seen IT precede water and health into a
    Jean> village.

The Grameen family of institutions is way cool.[1]  The economics is
fascinating, too.  But so far the implementation has been limited and
it seems likely that they will only be able to go so far in closing
the gap.  In the end they will need to be supplemented, and perhaps
even superceded, by more conventional institutions.

So why are you defending a false generalization with an example?
Deliberate obfuscation, is that it?

    Jean> Don't go all Maslow on us, David.

As usual you defend extremist statements by pretending the rebuttal
comes from the opposite corner, rather than the center.  (Logically
speaking, not politically.)

Tony said (conventional) economics is (100%) irrelevant, and he
implied[2] that the technology will reach (100% of) everybody and
ameliorate the current poverty in conventional goods (completely and
automatically).  All we have done is point out that

  o no, the technology will not reach everybody automatically, there
    are substantial costs involved;

  o there is one hell of a gap to ameliorate;

and therefore

  o yes, scarcity and the study of scarcity [== economics] are
    relevant to the discussion.

Finally, ObCharter,

  o FSBs may very well have a role to play in dealing with this
    particular manifestation of scarcity.

What's your problem with that?  You are trolling, perhaps?

[1]  By the way, David, the GrameenPhone model has been seriously
proposed for the Philippines, too, by a graduate student dispatched
here by the government.  So I assume that reflects his department's
thinking.  There's your Asian example.  Damn shame about Africa,

[2]  Don't bother to contest the parenthetical glosses.  There's
plenty of context to demonstrate that that is what he believes and

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