Subject: Re: crux of the essence -- was; Now, SCAT!
From: "Mark Rauterkus" <>
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 09:58:02 -0400

Hi *,

Tony asked:
> Please provide examples of my words that support the statements that you
> attribute to me.

Tony, deeds are way more important than "WORDs." How about if the proof of
your deeds stands as a witness to your BS. If you toss around any form of
the word "democracy," you should bite your tounge. You tossed me out -- like
a KING would -- for asking for democracy as a basis of authority. You pissed
away your wishes for any part of the larger community to need examples to be
provided to you with those actions of yours in the past.

When it comes to you asking for some flexibility and latitude in judgement,
your meter has expired. Your logic and hype is "blather." Past failures
can't be ignored as you choose to do. The test of a worthy life engagement,
in some certain quarters, for you is very dim at best in the present.

Perhaps you should think again before you ask for "past examples" of your
behavior and be thankful for the shred of distance you do enjoy.

Please move along, straw man and all.

Then Tony wrote in another non-appolgy post:
> Also, get rid of the juvenile killfile -- plock rhetoric. This is a Free
> Speech community that revels in dissenting voices, not one that condones
> censorship and mono-think.

But Tony. YOUR actions on FreeDev make a flaming example of a "juvenile
kill" and total nuke of open discussions. You eliminated dissenting voices.
You are a mono-think king pin. You have NO room to talk.

Tony, I was very close to attending the recent DC event you helped to
organize. I did try to register in advance, but your blasted web form was
BROKEN. My wife is in DC now, even. This isn't a threat, nor a promise --
but it is a guarantee. YOU, Tony, are hurting yourself, still, with a great
deal of your own actions. Your breakdowns are your fault -- guaranteed. Here
is a personal tip: Don't hurt yourself with such frequency and vigor. Be
nice to yourself and the rest of the world. Start by always trying to get
out of your own way.

Background: Tony helped to start FreeDevelopers. He put out a call for a
new, organic organization that would have democracy at its roots. When I
called for a vote, I was ejected. I'm guess I'm a freedom martyr at
FreeDevelopers along with some others. Problems: Tony's actions are all
about closed proprietary organizations and authority without JUSTICE.

I say "scat" to your trolling HERE for new flames and fresh blood for
FreeDevs. Go fix your web forms and FAQs instead.


Mark Rauterkus

- - -  in reply to this:
> From Tony's post:
>>From: Stephen J. Turnbull <>
>>Tony said (conventional) economics is (100%) irrelevant, and he
>>implied[2] that the technology will reach (100% of) everybody and
>>ameliorate the current poverty in conventional goods (completely and
> Please provide examples of my words that support the statements that you
> attribute to me.
> This is such a poorly drawn "straw man" argument that either you really
> believe this or you don't. If you do, there is no communication between us,
> because you hear only what you want to hear whether I say it or not. If you
> don't, you argue just to disagree, not for any constructive purpose. Either
> way, it is mere sophistry that impresses only weak minds.

- - -

Another ROTF Irony from Tony:
>>You haven't got the hang of this "killfile" idea, have you?
> Yes. I know. But 1. there are others cc'd. And 2. I can't believe that as an
> academic, he followed through. If he can't handle dissent in a mature way
> [and not this infantile- if you don't play my way, I am taking my ball and
> going home], he is in the wrong business. In fact, he should be taken away
> from young, malleable minds, since that action implies indoctrination of his
> own mono-think, and intolerance of others who think differently. Academia
> has society's highest professional standards of toleration of dissent for
> good reason.  If he did killfile, that shames him and his faculty, too. But
> who knows? I am too old to be really surprised at hypocrisy any more. He may
> well have, but I gave him the benefit of a doubt anyway.